Crystal balls. That’s what you get if your waterproofs leak at the crutch, but there’s another type. One to look into the future…
Here’s our SLUKin’ Vespa predictions for 2017…
Oh no, it’s come around again, beards and Christmas jumpers are fashionable again!
New Vespa PX for 2017?
So are Piaggio going to make a new Vespa PX or not?
We understood last year that a decision had been made by Piaggio to carry on with the classic Vespa line. While modern automatic Vespas have a wide appeal, there are still many people who love the brand for its roots.
People love the PX. Many riders want to interact with their scooter, to customise it and to change gear themselves.
Sadly, the old Vespa PX can’t attain Euro 4 approval, so it is effectively dead from 2016, but what are the options to develop a successor?
If Piaggio do make a successor to the PX then it is a gamble for them. They already killed off the classic Vespa once before, only to realise what a mistake it was when LML stepped into their shoes with colourful retro versions of their Star clone in 2-stroke, 4-stroke and automatic.
What Piaggio need to do if they want to keep the classic scooter lovers happy is give them something closer to historic Vespa than the current automatic models without development costs spiralling out of control, but still complying with legislation.
Not an easy task.
The new Vespa needs panels like this – tapering down at the back, not up!
OPTION 1: Build a geared 4-stroke engine for the current PX chassis
To save on re-tooling for the frame it is possible to make a 4-stroke engine that fits into the Vespa chassis. To see that, you only have to look to India. Not to LML – who built a new subframe for the Star 4T – but to Bajaj who made just such an engine for their Chetak Vespa clone in 2002.
This is a possibility.
OPTION 2: Build a completely new scooter with a new geared 4-stroke engine
To fit all the features required by legislation and customers (catalaysed exhausts, large airbox, ABS or CBS braking) into the original PX chassis seems tricky, so why not build a new PX-style 4-stroke engine and a new chassis to wrap around it?
By the time you’ve done this, the costs are very high, so Piaggio would need to sell a lot of units. That will only happen if the scooter offers something new to the market.
Are retro looks and some sort of manual gearshift enough to warrant developing a completely new scooter family?
Do Piaggio need to make a new PX when their modern Vespas are so popular?
OPTION 3: Modify a current Vespa automatic scooter to make it more retro
There is a cost argument that it would be cheaper to restyle one of the current Vespas to look more retro – or develop a ‘derived’ chassis for the current engine range. Maybe they could add some sort of ‘tip-tronic’ gearshift to the automatic transmission system in a bid to attract traditionalists.
That’s a more cost effective solution, but would it wash with those who want real retro?
OPTION 4: Make a new engine for a lightly-modified PX chassis
There is the option to do what LML did with the Star 4-stroke and modify just enough of the PX tooling to accommodate a more modern engine in something that retains the classic Vespa lines, but has space for things like an ABS pump and large airbox?
This is a feasible scenario.
Rotax are still developing 2-stroke injection petrol engines like this.
OPTION 5: Make a new Direct Injection 2-stroke engine for the PX replacement
Here’s a radical proposition, but hear me out.
When direct injection 2-stroke technology came out, first on the Aprilia SR50 DiTech, and more lately on the Piaggio Purejet models, it was risky.
These complex systems were in their infancy and in the case of the Aprilia DiTech – not immediately reliable – when the alternative of a 4-stroke engine solution was tried and tested.
Since that time 4-strokes have needed fuel-injection, catalysers and more and more sensors to meet regulations. Essentially, a 4-stroke engine has become ever more complex.
In the mean time, work has continued with 2-stroke in more simplified direct-injection formats that still meet Euro4 regulations. Is it possible that the most cost-effective solution for the PX replacement is simply to develop a direct-injection version of the current 2-stroke?
It’d be a big gamble that I’m not sure Piaggio would take.
Bajaj Chetak Wonder Gear – a failed attempt at a new handlebar shift patterm
Gears or automatic?
This is the big question.
What are the options:
- Conventional CVT automatic
- Manual gears and manual clutch
- Manual gears and clutch with alternative operation (see video above)
- Switchable CVT with artificial ‘gear steps’ (see video below)
Personally, I’d doubt that a PX replacement would be purely conventional CVT, otherwise why not simply buy a GTS or modern Primavera.
Hopefully Piaggio will pull something interesting out of the bag for us, but there’s no guarantee.
Push-button CVT gear shift on the Aprilia Mana
Other possibilities
Of course there is the option that Piaggio don’t bother at all with a PX replacement, which would not be a surprise given the risk involved, but our spies tell us that at the moment it is looking much more likely that we’ll get a new Vespa this year.
Our predictions for a Vespa PX replacement:
- More traditional styling than a Vespa GTS but unlikey to be an unmodified PX chassis.
- Some type of manual gearchange (push-button perhaps) possibly with an automatic mode as well.
- Front and rear hydraulic brakes with ABS.
- Water-cooling, possibly with an engine-mounted radiator.
- Most likely 4-stroke, but possibly 2-stroke direct injection.
- Possibly with engine stop-start technology, like the Piaggio Medley.
Sticky
If you like what we do at SLUK, why not buy something from our online shop to help fund our site?
-
Vespa GTS/GTV SLUK Ultra Triple Protection Pack
£75.00 – £80.00
-
Vespa GTS screen brackets
£41.00
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Vespa GTS SLUK Shorty screen
£65.00 – £95.00
-
Vespa GTS SLUK rear spoiler with LED stop/tail light
£41.50 – £43.00
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Vespa PX rear bumper with ultra-bright LED stop/tail light
£65.00
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Vespa GTS SLUK Guard + Tail HPE TWIN PACK ULTRA
£53.00 – £58.00
Crystal balls. That’s what you get if your waterproofs leak at the crutch, but there’s another type. One to look into the future…
Here’s our SLUKin’ Vespa predictions for 2017…
New Vespa PX for 2017?
So are Piaggio going to make a new Vespa PX or not?
We understood last year that a decision had been made by Piaggio to carry on with the classic Vespa line. While modern automatic Vespas have a wide appeal, there are still many people who love the brand for its roots.
People love the PX. Many riders want to interact with their scooter, to customise it and to change gear themselves.
Sadly, the old Vespa PX can’t attain Euro 4 approval, so it is effectively dead from 2016, but what are the options to develop a successor?
If Piaggio do make a successor to the PX then it is a gamble for them. They already killed off the classic Vespa once before, only to realise what a mistake it was when LML stepped into their shoes with colourful retro versions of their Star clone in 2-stroke, 4-stroke and automatic.
What Piaggio need to do if they want to keep the classic scooter lovers happy is give them something closer to historic Vespa than the current automatic models without development costs spiralling out of control, but still complying with legislation.
Not an easy task.
OPTION 1: Build a geared 4-stroke engine for the current PX chassis
To save on re-tooling for the frame it is possible to make a 4-stroke engine that fits into the Vespa chassis. To see that, you only have to look to India. Not to LML – who built a new subframe for the Star 4T – but to Bajaj who made just such an engine for their Chetak Vespa clone in 2002.
This is a possibility.
OPTION 2: Build a completely new scooter with a new geared 4-stroke engine
To fit all the features required by legislation and customers (catalaysed exhausts, large airbox, ABS or CBS braking) into the original PX chassis seems tricky, so why not build a new PX-style 4-stroke engine and a new chassis to wrap around it?
By the time you’ve done this, the costs are very high, so Piaggio would need to sell a lot of units. That will only happen if the scooter offers something new to the market.
Are retro looks and some sort of manual gearshift enough to warrant developing a completely new scooter family?
OPTION 3: Modify a current Vespa automatic scooter to make it more retro
There is a cost argument that it would be cheaper to restyle one of the current Vespas to look more retro – or develop a ‘derived’ chassis for the current engine range. Maybe they could add some sort of ‘tip-tronic’ gearshift to the automatic transmission system in a bid to attract traditionalists.
That’s a more cost effective solution, but would it wash with those who want real retro?
OPTION 4: Make a new engine for a lightly-modified PX chassis
There is the option to do what LML did with the Star 4-stroke and modify just enough of the PX tooling to accommodate a more modern engine in something that retains the classic Vespa lines, but has space for things like an ABS pump and large airbox?
This is a feasible scenario.
OPTION 5: Make a new Direct Injection 2-stroke engine for the PX replacement
Here’s a radical proposition, but hear me out.
When direct injection 2-stroke technology came out, first on the Aprilia SR50 DiTech, and more lately on the Piaggio Purejet models, it was risky.
These complex systems were in their infancy and in the case of the Aprilia DiTech – not immediately reliable – when the alternative of a 4-stroke engine solution was tried and tested.
Since that time 4-strokes have needed fuel-injection, catalysers and more and more sensors to meet regulations. Essentially, a 4-stroke engine has become ever more complex.
In the mean time, work has continued with 2-stroke in more simplified direct-injection formats that still meet Euro4 regulations. Is it possible that the most cost-effective solution for the PX replacement is simply to develop a direct-injection version of the current 2-stroke?
It’d be a big gamble that I’m not sure Piaggio would take.
Gears or automatic?
This is the big question.
What are the options:
- Conventional CVT automatic
- Manual gears and manual clutch
- Manual gears and clutch with alternative operation (see video above)
- Switchable CVT with artificial ‘gear steps’ (see video below)
Personally, I’d doubt that a PX replacement would be purely conventional CVT, otherwise why not simply buy a GTS or modern Primavera.
Hopefully Piaggio will pull something interesting out of the bag for us, but there’s no guarantee.
Other possibilities
Of course there is the option that Piaggio don’t bother at all with a PX replacement, which would not be a surprise given the risk involved, but our spies tell us that at the moment it is looking much more likely that we’ll get a new Vespa this year.
Our predictions for a Vespa PX replacement:
- More traditional styling than a Vespa GTS but unlikey to be an unmodified PX chassis.
- Some type of manual gearchange (push-button perhaps) possibly with an automatic mode as well.
- Front and rear hydraulic brakes with ABS.
- Water-cooling, possibly with an engine-mounted radiator.
- Most likely 4-stroke, but possibly 2-stroke direct injection.
- Possibly with engine stop-start technology, like the Piaggio Medley.
Sticky
I bought a PX at the end of last year as the model was going out. I hope that Piaggio bring a new model with traditional looks and gears, a little (or lot?) more power would also be welcome.
As Italy is still an EU member state (maybe to change this year), and the other Brussels Sprouts are looking to go ‘lectric in 10 years time or so, the shelf life of such a new model, at least for EU production, would be limited would it not?
Will Piaggio really build a potentially terminal product. The PX lasted 40 years and they surely got their money back on the tooling! Yet a completely new geared machine using an internal combustion engine is just going to become extinct in a few years anyway.
I really can’t see it, unless these will be high end, exclusive machines with a price tag to match. A modified GTS with a tiptronic pseudo manual shift surely would make more sense and take the Vespa as a fossil fuel burner to the end of its reign into the leccy era.
OK by me, as I really want a scoot that makes a noise like those flying scooters in the Jetsons that could be made by an artificial exhaust pipe digital speaker system. Coooooool!
leccy vehicles and self driving cars etc is never going to happen
maybe one of the old frames, sprint super rally could be fitted with an lx type auto engine ?
@Nigel Beevers. Have you seen Germany’s recent declaration that they will go electric by 2030?
They set the pace in the EU zone and other countries will follow suite. Why do you think Piaggio and Italjet have just introduced leccy versions of their scoots.
The Brussels Sprouts are serious about emissions and small machines like commuter scooters are perfect for leccy engines.
Sorry mate, but never is a very long time and ten years is a more likely scenario. Buy an old classic status scoot now as I can see the newer 2ts being banned from town centres as has happened in Italy. Look at what is happening in London….a non Euro 4 compliant scooter (2T Vespa PX or Lammy) will have to pay the congestion charge!
The world moves on and the wants of a small number of retro fossil fuel Luddites amounts to nothing but a hill of beans.
Enjoy and ride safe, whether fossil or leccy 😉
Check this out Nigel. Will Brexit protect us…I think not! 🙁
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://electrek.co/2016/10/08/germany-push-europe-wide-ban-on-gas-powered-cars-by-2030-only-ev-sales-onward/&ved=0ahUKEwjY2av6_6_RAhXFSCYKHZ6ZBAwQFggsMAM&usg=AFQjCNHIJsIJP8dvJ1wsYvjlOnJqHVLWig
is that the same Germany that said no more nuclear power stations, so they’ll be burning coal. very clean. electric vehicles will be fine if we plug them in at home with a flex 150 miles long. but things might get a bit knotty
Sticky, I would recommend option 5. But not with the DiTech system. I would take German Ficht technology which have roots in GDR developments from Dresden. After reunification it was finally developed in Bavaria and bought by US outboard gigant Evindrude. It is nearly 20 years in production and worked well.
Here more about Ficht injection inside Evinrude
https://youtu.be/-QN-5uTZC7w
https://www.boats.com/inside-ficht/
Here is the Homepage of developing Company: https://www.provenion.de/65-0-FFI.html
The simplest option:
Make a PX50 (similar to the PX80) that would be restricted to 28 mph, but by using a tiny bore which would make it easily upgradable to 125/150 via aftermarket kits (already on the market). As the 50cc Euro 3 2 stroke is still exempt until 2018, that will extend the PX another year at least.
We like your devious thinking Roo
Yep. Imagine too that a 16 year old can benefit by starting with a PX50 and just upgrading when they get older to a 125cc (A1 license) or higher (A2/A license) – and never have to buy another scoot.
Piaggio, are you listening? 🙂
better still 200 engine, with a 50 cylinder. i’ll buy that
The only mistake that Piaggio\Vespa is doing is never work on time and only worry about possible profit like if they have a crystal ball.. The Px model is like the Father of Scooters, its her most famous model and at some points was almost the only scooter with gears you could buy, this model also have such a special engineering layout it really is an unusual work something on the level of Porsche and abarth… If they had keep working and developed this model into bigger chassi\Engine they would had keep the flame alive and would be making records of sales like Porsche always did with the 911 .. in my opinion they should do a new model a little bit bigger to allow bigger wheels and space for 2 persons and they can t go wrong in making an two stroke direct injection and a 125 and 300cc 4stroke air cooled engine, on the first models to make simple(War machines) and classy they should use air cooled engines then if the sales are good and people required more speed they should work on liquid cooled versions.. Px has to be manual and has to have Auto versions.. Lucky for Piaggio that LML always had financial problems and end up having to close.. I buy one LML 4t 200cc new in 2016 i have almost 16000 km and i am happy with the bike but i know this model can be a lot better and have much better quality if it was worked by Piaggio and treated with the respect this model deserve basaly like Porsche does with the 911..
Thanks for your comment Tiago, very good post.
With LML in the brink, it would be wise if Piaggio bought the rights/tooling from LML to make a 4t PX which would be automatic. They can then use existing Piaggio 4t Euro 4 auto powerplants to replace the cobbled Daelim unit used in the LML. With combined braking, this would be feasible for Euro 4.